bram452 ([info]bram452) wrote,
@ 2004-09-17 09:31:00
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Why writers can't win
I have finished the first draft of Winter Cities, the second of the four book series I'm contracted for. I wrote the last word Wednesday night late in the evening, and I went to bed feeling relieved and a little high. That, in case you're wondering, was the pleasant moment.

I woke up convinced that the book was crap. Now, nothing changed from the night to the morning. I hadn't re-read it. I hadn't meditated deeply on the plot and found some error. There was *no* additional input. Which is to say the depression is totally irrational.

There are writers -- well, and artists of all sorts, I imagine -- who aren't aware that this is normal. The big push isn't followed by exultation or pride or even that sense of deep satisfaction. It's followed by the unshakable conviction that this, at last, is the work that will prove that you're not actually all that much. Whatever you did before this was actually he high water mark of your ability, and it's all downhill from here. And sure, the feeling will pass after a while, and I'll get back to sane & stable. Until I finish something else, and *it* will suck.

This isn't pathology, folks, it's the process. The woman who has won the most awards in the field, Connie Willis, suffers the same thing. It doesn't stop with assurances or prizes or money or people showering you with adulation. It stops with death.

Don't go Riddley Walker's path
Drop John's riding on his back.

Still, I wouldn't have no other.



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[info]aalauber
2004-09-17 09:14 am UTC (link)
that's good to know. maybe i'm not experienced enough yet, and i certainly haven't been (nor tried to be) published to have felt this myself. i'm sure everything i write sucks so there's no letdown at the end ;)

on a mostly unrelated note, how many writers do you personally know that support themselves entirely on their writing?

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Writing and eating
[info]bram452
2004-09-17 09:32 am UTC (link)
Um. Lemme see... I'm guessing around a dozen, though at least one of them is having a hard time finding a medical insurance company that'll cover him and another that's thinking seriously about getting certified to be a real estate agent.

But I know a *lot* of writers. The percentage of folks who can realy survive on the money from writing is small and getting smaller.

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Re: Writing and eating
[info]elegantelbow
2004-09-17 10:11 pm UTC (link)
Hey! Speaking of writers you know... I am looking for someone to write a young adult fantasy novel for an existing brand. Do you have any ideas about who I might contact, and what they might charge? I'm not exactly sure where we are, but we're in the planning stages.

Unfortunately, I can't give much more detail because I'm under an NDA.

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Re: Writing and eating
[info]bram452
2004-09-18 08:20 am UTC (link)
Might have someone. There's a woman in my writing group who's doing YA work. As to charges, that's going to depend a lot on whether it's work for hire (ie the folks commissioning it own all the rights) or something where she retains copyright. And, of course, the length of the project.

Let me run it past her and if she's curious, I'll put the two of you together.

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Re: Writing and eating
[info]elegantelbow
2004-09-18 08:54 am UTC (link)
Cool! Thanks. Yes, it's definitely work for hire.

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[info]sleigh
2004-09-17 09:56 am UTC (link)
Congrats on finishing the book! FWIW, I also go through the same "it's great/it's shit" cycle, not just at the end of the book, but generally through the entire writing process. I find that I'd be equally unsurprised if my editor said "This is a fabulous work!" or "This is dreck! What were you thinking?"

I suspect such lack of confidence is all too common with writers and artists of any ilk.

And I'll second your comment to paeyl. I know many, many published writers; I know very few who make their living entirely from their fiction.

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[info]cmpriest
2004-09-17 10:11 am UTC (link)
hi there ... was sent your way by the mighty and powerful [info]aalauber.
i was whining, you see. i'm at the opposite end of your situation. i've now got to begin book 2.

anyway good luck and congratulations.

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[info]bram452
2004-09-17 11:31 am UTC (link)
But aren't these the problems we always dreamed of?

Anyway, nice meeting you. And friend of Paeyl's etc etc. Which editor are you working with Tor-wise?

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likewise, i'm sure
[info]cmpriest
2004-09-17 11:46 am UTC (link)
Liz Gorinsky.
and you?

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Re: likewise, i'm sure
[info]bram452
2004-09-17 11:59 am UTC (link)
Jim Frenkel.

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Re: likewise, i'm sure
[info]cmpriest
2004-09-17 12:06 pm UTC (link)
ah.
a nice bunch over there, non?
i'm delighted with them. i had a um ... very bad experience with a previous small press. in the end it worked out well -- i landed with TOR as a result of the book -- so i shouldn't complain that much.

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Re: likewise, i'm sure
[info]bram452
2004-09-17 12:14 pm UTC (link)
How odd. I had a less than pleasant small press experince before Tor... and yet, if we talk about this too much in public, we'll have talked about it in public, and that's a party foul.

I've had a very good experience of Tor so far. Of course I haven't seen the cover art yet, so who knows? It's early days yet.

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[info]cmpriest
2004-09-17 12:17 pm UTC (link)
agreed ;-)

though it's my understanding that many people having difficulties with smaller presses ... and we are not alone. perhaps we should start a club or something.

at any rate, i'm dying to know what my own cover is going to look like. the thing won't come out for another year yet, but even so, i'm desperate from curiosity.

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Titles?
[info]bram452
2004-09-17 12:21 pm UTC (link)
What season is it slated for? And what's the title?

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Re: Titles?
[info]cmpriest
2004-09-17 12:23 pm UTC (link)
Four and Twenty Blackbirds. it's a re-release of the book that went out through the small press ... new edition, 20K words'-worth of new content, etc.

so far as i know, i can expect it in the fall of next year.

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Re: Titles?
[info]bram452
2004-09-17 12:47 pm UTC (link)
I'll keep an eye out for it. That's right around when mine's due out too. We may be sharing a catalog.

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Re: Titles?
[info]cmpriest
2004-09-17 12:50 pm UTC (link)
right on.

i checked your page and see that the series is "The Long Price Quartet," but what title of yours should i keep my eyes open for?

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mergers and misalliances
[info]aalauber
2004-09-17 01:01 pm UTC (link)
funnier, the small press one of you was with ate the one the other was. perhaps it's in bad taste to mention it here and the two of you have already compared notes and figured it out and Bram can always delete this *deep breath*

but it's always amused me that two people i know from totally disparate venues and periods would wind up professionally related with similar experiences.

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Re: mergers and misalliances
[info]cmpriest
2004-09-17 01:10 pm UTC (link)
really? a bad experience with [someothersmallishpressthatatemyex-smallishpress]?
i'd previously heard good things about them, but now i'm less sure myself.
they seem to be distributing the old edition of my book, despite their rabid denials to the contrary. and a widespread insistence that it was taken out of print.

god, i'd love some paperwork one day.

[but yeah, feel free to delete this if you feel it's best]

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Re: mergers and misalliances
[info]bram452
2004-09-17 01:21 pm UTC (link)
I'll let it stand for now. We ain't said anything that'll show up on a google search, and just the bare that that we've both had experiences of some sort might be useful to folks out there.

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Re: mergers and misalliances
[info]bram452
2004-09-17 01:23 pm UTC (link)
But if we ever wind up at the same convention, perhaps we can compare notes. I'd be interested to hear what you have to say.

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Re: mergers and misalliances
[info]cmpriest
2004-09-17 01:30 pm UTC (link)
likewise.

i see you did WorldCon ... I did DragonCon--same weekend, naturally.
one of these days, we'll gossip.
;-)

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Re: Titles?
[info]bram452
2004-09-17 01:02 pm UTC (link)
Fair question. Book one was originally The Sad Trade until my agent pointed out that it was perhaps not the sort of title than encouraged the average bookstore browser to pick it up. The new title right now is A Shadow in Summer, but I've only really begun to edit. I was putting off the serious critical work until the first draft of the new book was done. So by the time it hits shelves, the title may have changed again...

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(Anonymous)
2004-09-21 08:05 pm UTC (link)
Congrats on finishing, anyway! At least you've waited until you're finished to think it's crap.

TerryB

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Oh My god...
[info]beyondge2
2004-10-20 08:07 am UTC (link)
Just reading the comments here is overwhelming...

I don't think I'll ever be published or ever want to be!

I'm seriously sweating here folks!

I've heard of deadlines and such, but reading your comments makes it so real!

So you have a "Four book contract"...so you told them your idea, and they wait for your books?

Holy crap. So then you have to write them, and not just scribble down random scenes, random dialogues, and a plot that starts with 3 permanent lines but is followed by a million other interchangeable ones because you can't make up your mind.

I feel like wandering into your LJ was like opening up the panel to the innards of a machine you didn't want to see the process of!

And I mean that in the most comendable way...and looking at your website, I can see i'm many miles away from serious writing...any words of wisdom? What were your baby steps?

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Re: Oh My god...
[info]bram452
2004-10-20 09:59 am UTC (link)
The contract: I wrote the first whole book and summaries of the next three and had my agent send them out. They went to about five different publishers, and we sold them to Tor. So in a way I started a quarter of the way through the project already. They way they felt pretty sure I was capable of finishing a manuscript -- they really like to know that before they agree to write a check.

But the second book is due in December (I'm running a little ahead) and the third book *next* December and the fourth book the December after that.

The three pieces of advice I can offer someone starting up are these:

1) read a lot
2) write a lot (Raymond Chandler said that everyone had a million bad words they had to write before they got to the good stuff. My experience is that that's about right.)
3) If you want to write genre stuff -- sci-fi, fantasy, horror -- try to get into one of the big workshops: Clarion,Clarion West, Clarion South, or Odyssey.

They tend to help folks hone skills, but more than that, you meet the people in the field. Networking is not a force to be sneezed at.

And make sure you're doing it because you love doing it. It's stupid way to get rich.

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Re: Oh My god...
[info]beyondge2
2004-10-20 10:55 am UTC (link)
Thanks a lot man- very helpful stuff!

I'm so green, I think that I can simply continue to read and write...

I'm an English/American Studies major and I try and read a variety of work, from Sherman Alexie to R.R Martin...Although I have to admit, I’m mostly focused on old, American literature. I love it, but I’d like to start reading some more of the stuff I like to write- I read almost everything by R.A Salvatore, but that's about it...any authors I should check out?

And thanks so much for the advice-Really helpful-
And to assure you- I don't write with ideas of getting rich, but mostly because my childhood has dissolved...action figures have lost their allure, D&D is scarce, but all of the stories still exist...I still have dialogues in my head with characters who won't leave me alone...I can still name my first ranger in my first D&D session, and I still remember when Spawn pounded the shit out of Spider Man for peeking through the window of Barbie’s penthouse. But, I'm probably more of a reader anyhow...I've been content with just laying down plot lines and character sketches.

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